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Post by betty10211 on Dec 27, 2005 10:10:41 GMT -5
By rights, everyone in PV should hate Ryan. Jonathan and Erin especially have so many reasons to hate Ryan, the biological brother who forgot they existed after leaving them behind with a brutally violent father and a drunken mother! Ryan ditched Jonathan & Erin, never once checked up on them, never even attempted to report the abuse Ryan knew Jonathan was already being subjected to (yet hypocritically went off on a poor teacher for not doing more to help Jonathan)...mourned Gillian very briefly before moving on...ditched Kendall w/o giving her a chance to explain...tried to force Kendall to accept Greenlee & married Greenlee to hurt Kendall...& upon learning the extent of Jonathan's abuse & torture at Patrick's hands, the morning after the truth serum scenes, Ryan went off on Jonathan, slammed him into a wall and choked Jonathan, and manhandled Jonathan instead of getting Jonathan the help he so clearly needed. What kind of a person is Ryan? Greenlee was ok at that point. Instead of realizing that Jonathan needed extensive professional help and reaching out to Jonathan, Ryan reacted with his usual rage and attacked Jonathan. If Ryan had gotten Jonathan real help, then the tumor might have been diagnosed earlier & Jonathan (& others) spared so much suffering. Ryan's insistance that he had all the answers where Jonathan was concerned, every single answer wrong, led to Jonathan's continued unravelling to the point that the kidnapping & the cave scenes happened. Then Ryan shot his mentally fragile & medically ill brother! Ryan mourned Jonathan for all of twenty minutes (& Braden not at all) before going on a violent rampage. Ryan went to a fight club to brutally beat random strangers (so as not to do that to his wife), attacked JR, attacked Ethan, had a vasectomy behind Greenlee's back, threw a chair across a room Kendall was in, called Kendall soulless and admitted to wanting to break Kendall's jaw, nearly killed David, tore up a casino suite & broke glass with no regard for anyone's safety, and had to be stopped by Zach from punching his pregnant wife, attempted suicide, & then faked his death to ditch his pregnant wife. Since his return to PV, Ryan has broken his promise to spend Thanksgiving with his siblings, jumped all over Jonathan every time a new crime happens because Ryan doesn't believe Jon is cured and thus hurt Jonathan deeply, offered to leave the mess (Jon, Erin, & Kendall's baby) behind to run off with Greenlee, forgotten all about Greenlee (his true love), gone after Kendall ( his detour on the road to Greenlee) to tell her that her brain was scrambled & that she was incapable of making her own decisions, become enraged & thrown Aidan into Jonathan's tree, and displayed no patience with a childlike Jonathan. How exactly has Ryan been redeemed? At least with Jonathan we know that he was damaged by his "upbringing", had a tumor pressing on several nerve centers in his brain, and was wrongly taking anti-psych meds that contributed to his psychosis. We have seen Jonathan's remorse and know that he wants to be a good man. Jonathan has owned up to his crimes (& likely to some of Braden's) and attempted to make amends. But Ryan remains arrogant, self-absorbed, unwilling to take responsibilty for his very real mistakes, and unrepentent. Ryan has not even started his road to redemption. He is merely a witness to Jonathan's road to redemption. Redeeming Jonathan does nothing to salvage Ryan. Ryan has been destroyed completely - some real effort needs to be made to SHOW Ryan changing. Having Tad proclaim that Ryan is the best of men doesn't make it so. Ryan has been a terrible brother to Jonathan & Erin. How can we expect an unchanged Ryan to be any better as a father than he is as a brother? I want to like Ryan, and at times I do like him, but I really don't see Ryan as being redeemed yet. Most of the time I hate Ryan!
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Post by texans08 on Dec 27, 2005 11:45:43 GMT -5
i PERSONALLY don't see a need for a massive redemption launch in regards to Ryan. Ryan was still a kid himself when he left home. should he have made better choices? sure but he's not the only one. He's admitted that it was wrong for him not to go back for his siblings. he admitted that he was too caught up in himself.
Ryan made very bad decisions when it came to Jon (pre cave). The signs were there but Ryan refused to see them out of guilt. He gave not only a blind loyalty to Jon but refused to even consider the fact that jon needed help. For me, i did'nt see any kind of malicious intent. He was a big brother who knew he had let his little brother down and guilt was clouding his judgement. Ryan enabled Jon when he was only trying to help.
The cave scene changed Ryan, he went into a downward spiral. Did amc take it too far? sure but eh..what can you do? lol. As one of my fave characters EVER, it was extremely frustrating watching them destroy Ryan but i never hated him.
When he found Jon in Nova Scotia, i did'nt see him as trying to be controlling. i saw him as seeing it as his chance to do what he had'nt done before, be the big brother that Jon and Erin needed.
I love Erin BUT..she too is blinded by guilt. she handled Jon's situation all wrong and is fiercely protective of him not only because she loves him but she carries a large amount of guilt in regards to what happened to Jon. For me, neither Ryan or Erin is responsible but both have made poor decisions when it comes to Jon.
I was'nt upset when Ryan questioned Jon about the bar fire. In order to help his brother, Ryan HAS to know EVERYTHING. If Jon withholds info from Ryan, then once again, Ryan goes in partially blind and that will help no one.
The laverys have now returned to PV. Jon only has Ry and Erin and Erin only has her brothers. Ryan on the other hand had multiple issues that needed to be resolved. He was trying to save his brother AND his marriage at the same time. He can't be in two places at once. Jon and Erin are not selfish, i feel that they totally understood why Ryan had to be away for Thanksgiving. I don't feel like he purposely ditched his siblings, at the time, THEY were not his ONLY family.
Ryan has ALOT on his plate right now and i actually like the fact that he makes mistakes when trying to handle it all. he's human and humans make mistakes. To me, that does'nt make him any less sincere.
Ryan loves both Jon and Erin with all his heart.
In regards to Kendall, i'm in the minority when i say that i did'nt exactly blow a gasket when he married greenlee. he did'nt choose greenlee over kendall. he chose to protect his heart.
He had his tongue down kendalls throat about 5 seconds before saying "I do" to greenlee. As they grew closer before the priest, kendall, once again, held back a very key detail. that greenlee was locked up. It was stuff like that, that drove Ryan batty! was ryan innnocent in it all? no, just stupid. he could'nt see the snake (greenlee) for what she really was.
Ryan did'nt marry greenlee to stick it to Kendall. He married her because she was "safe" and he hoped that it would protect him from his own heart that ultimately belonged to kendall. He begged and pleaded with greenlee to help him stay strong. Kendall is Ryans one an only weekness and he ran scared.
I also believe that's why we've had so much nastiness between them since the rylee marriage. Ryan could'nt breathe without having kendall in his orbit. At the same time, he was determined to protect his heart from her. In order to do that, he had to lash out and put up a wall. a VERY sturdy wall because if there was so much as a micro crack..kendall would have slipped in.
Ryan and Kendall both are very extreme people. Ryan felt like, "i have to hate her, otherwise, i'll fall back in love with her". Ryan has remained jealous since he said his "i do's". he was jealous of Ethan and now Zach.
Even in the heart of all the nastiness, Ryan let his true feelings show in regards to kendall, not to HER but to Ethan. At the bar. Ryan HAS to keep kendall at a distance. otherwise, he's toast, no one likes their vulnerabilities exposed like that.
Ryan made a huge mistake by faking his death BUT he has acknowledged it as well. He knows what he did was wrong and is trying to make up for it the best way he can. he's continuously told kendall that he will support her and he will. i think Ryan will make an excellent father, even if he does'nt realize it yet.
uh..ok..now i'm rambling ;D sorry *blushes*
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Post by minkie on Dec 27, 2005 12:08:11 GMT -5
I think its unfair to expect him to make his entire life just about Jonathan. Ryan has more on his plate than just Jonathan, and Erin is helping him in that regard anyway. And even JONATHAN understands that.
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Post by texans08 on Dec 27, 2005 12:11:10 GMT -5
exactly. i think ryan is doing the best that he can under the circumstances. the man has ALOT on his plate right now, not just his sibs. They know that AND respect it. What kind of a man would he be if he had'nt fought for his marriage? a hideous marriage but a marriage nonetheless. Not to mention the baby on the way. i respct him more for trying to juggle it all and making mistakes in the process than i would if he isolated himself to his sibs ONLY.
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Post by betty10211 on Dec 27, 2005 12:56:56 GMT -5
I think its unfair to expect him to make his entire life just about Jonathan. Ryan has more on his plate than just Jonathan, and Erin is helping him in that regard anyway. And even JONATHAN understands that. I don't expect Ryan to make his life entirely about Jonathan. But Ryan was willing to leave Jonathan, Erin, And Kendall's baby behind only a few weeks ago to be with Greenlee. Ryan ditched his siblings once before - he shouldn't have even considered doing it again. And I wish that Ryan would stop saying things and not following through. Ryan promised to spend Thanksgiving with his siblings. Did he? No, not even part of the day. Ryan said he contacted a therapist and was going to get professional help. Did he? No, and we still see Ryan losing control as he did when he threw Aidan into Jonathan's tree. I hope that Ryan can get his act together and be a good father to Kendall's baby.
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Post by texans08 on Dec 27, 2005 13:05:10 GMT -5
Ryan was all over the place when trying to get through to greenlee and the look on his face said it all. he was just reaching...anything to get her to atleast stop and consider trying to work it out. Ryan HAD to be at the hotel on thanksgiving, erin and jon understood that. they encouraged him to fight for that viper of a wife. NO ONE seeks therapy in PV...if all those who needed it sought it out...well...the line would be around the block! i did'nt see Ryan loosing his temper with Aidan. He was pissed that Zach and Aidan ILLEGALLY took it upon themselves to track Jonathan. Ryan rightfully wanted it to stop. He grabbed Aidans hand to stop him from making the call. Ryan did'nt push Aidan into the tree, in fact it was a bianca style free fall into the tree for both of them. they played tug of war, aidan lunged, ryan lunged back and they fell into the tree. It's not like Ryan picked him up and launched him into it.
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Post by minkie on Dec 27, 2005 13:24:24 GMT -5
Betty your whole first post is about how Ryan should be there for Jonathan and Jonathan only. So yeah, it seems like you want his life to revolve around Jonathan.
What does Aidan and the tree have to do with anything? Heck he was even defending Jonathan and they fell into a tree. Big deal.
Ryan should be there for Jonathan, sure, but he has a life outside of Jonathan as well and everyone in the show seems to understand that as well.
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Post by Chris on Dec 27, 2005 14:17:04 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with the previous posts, but I had to ask....
When Ryan and Kendall were in the chapel and Kendall was talking about the choice between raising the child and giving him up for adoption, Ryan said that he would be there for Kendall if she decided to have the baby. I thought that was admirable that if she decided to raise him, Ryan would be there too.
I thought it was odd though that if Kendall wasn't around, Ryan didn't want to raise the baby. He never said, "Hey... don't give it up for adoption. I'll raise it myself."
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Post by Liz on Dec 27, 2005 14:44:46 GMT -5
Platinum, I don't really find it odd that Ryan didn't offer to raise the baby himself. He never wanted kids after the cave incident, and this child was conceived without his knowledge or blessing. I'm actually thinking that he's being pretty nice about the whole thing. Also, I don't think it's real to him, yet. What I mean is, he's just getting the word that Kendall is pregnant. Once he sees and ultrasound, hears the heartbeat, feels the baby move, then finally sees his son for real, then I think that he'll love his son. When I was pregnat with my first baby, I had NO idea that I would love her so much until I saw her. I actually told my husband that I couldn't imagine loving my baby as much as I loved my dog, at the time. How is that for crazy thinking? ? When I was pregnat with my second baby, I felt the love right away, because I knoew what to expect, then. I'm so excited for you to meet your baby!! How wonderful you're going to feel!
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Post by Chris on Dec 27, 2005 14:54:09 GMT -5
I'm not saying I expected Ryan to say he wanted the child, etc. I just thought if he was willing to take the leap WITH Kendall, I was completely expecting him to stop her from adoption talk and it didn't happen. That's all. Frankly I'm with you - he was pretty clear with everyone how he felt about having a baby before he went off that cliff.
I had to laugh at the comment about thinking you were going to love your dog more. You are so funny! But I know what you mean. I'm so attached to my kitties that I think if I am only that attached to the baby the same as the cats it would be enough. But when the baby is born I'm sure I'll know a love I've never known before.
Same with my husband. Already, everytime he goes to the store he buys diapers or baby powder or something. I just smile - - even though we might not even use the brands he's buying, it's his way of being excited.
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Post by texans08 on Dec 27, 2005 15:05:07 GMT -5
i don't think ryan is quite there yet and in reality, neither is kendall. BOTH are still up to considering adoption. First, it was about to have or to terminate and ryan decided that which ever kendall chose, he would support. kendall has only decided to give birth at this point, which ryan again, supports that decision. They're taking baby steps which i think is appropriate. the next decision that they will have to make will be to keep or give the baby up for adoption.
I think they both will agree to raise the baby BUT..if amc decided to trip it up a bit, it would be in THAT STAGE that ryan would possibly want to keep the baby himself even if kendall wanted to give it up or vice versa.
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Post by Chris on Dec 27, 2005 15:12:56 GMT -5
Or maybe Simone and Ethan's big news of 2006 will be that they have decided to officially adopt Kendalls son. ;D
That would be one confused child later on when parenting came into question! LOL!!
(Doubt this will happen. I'm pretty sure Ryan and Kendall will choose to raise it... but I thought I would throw that out there...)
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Post by texans08 on Dec 27, 2005 15:16:29 GMT -5
just a tidbit..the sethan suprise does not include a baby
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Post by Liz on Dec 27, 2005 15:18:07 GMT -5
Too funny!!! ;D I think Ryan and Kendall will be very happy when their son is born. I can't wait to see what they name him. Platinum, are you going to find out your baby's sex beforehand? I did both times because I was way too nosy to wait. Julia didn't cooperate the first time, so my OB snuck in a free ultrasound for me at the next visit so we could find out. Oh, I love that man! He's the best OB ever! He even wanted to me to get pregnant agian after Vince, just so he could deliver another baby for me. He knew it would never happen, but he and I got along so well, he said that it would be nice to help me through another pregnancy and delivery. I just laughed and said HELL NO!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by donutqueen on Dec 27, 2005 15:39:40 GMT -5
btw- tex- loved your first post. Wonderfully insightful!
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